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Post by nitrox on Jan 26, 2016 13:59:26 GMT
Maximum deck size is 40 for all, except TCG(Decks can be 40 cards or more)
TCG banlist
No official banlist, but it's a community ban on Bombazaar.
Set 17 banlist:
Restricted to 1: Astral Reef Cyber Brain Emeral Deep Operation Streaming Shaper Aquan Skeleton Vice Judgement of the Flame’s Spear and the Water’s Blade
Banned: Bombazar, Dragon of Destiny Bolmeteus Sapphire Dragon Future Slash Hell Slash Slash Charger +Cursed Totem(unofficially recommended)
Set 35 banlist:
Restricted to 1: Astral Reef Cyber Brain Emeral Deep Operation Streaming Shaper Aquan Cloned Nightmare Nariel, the Oracle Aqua Hulcus Miraculous Snare Infinity Dragon Pacific Champion Uberdragon Bajula Bajula’s Soul Crest of Mother Miraculous Plague Mist Rias, Thunder Guardian Inferno Sign Perfect Galaxy, Spirit of Immortality Amaterasu, Founder of the Blue Wolves Emperor Chirico Paradise Aroma Romanesk, the Dragon Wizard Spiral Gate
Falconer, Lightfang Ninja
Hanzou, Menacing Phantom
Hydro Hurricane
Banned: Bombazar, Dragon of Destiny Bolmeteus Sapphire Dragon Future Slash Hell Slash Slash Charger Skeleton Vice Soulswap Dark Hydra, Evil Planet Lord Judgement of the Flame’s Spear and the Water’s Blade Aqua Patrol Cursed Totem Inferno Gate Soul Advantage King Alcadeias, Holy Gaia
Episode 3 Banlist Valid for DMR-12 JP format(Episode 3 set block).
Restricted to 1: Astral Reef Emeral Deep Operation Streaming Shaper Cloned Nightmare Nariel, the Oracle Aqua Hulcus Miraculous Snare Infinity Dragon Pacific Champion Uberdragon Bajula Bajula’s Soul Miraculous Plague Mist Rias, Thunder Guardian Inferno Sign Perfect Galaxy, Spirit of Immortality Amaterasu, Founder of the Blue Wolves Paradise Aroma Romanesk, the Dragon Wizard Spiral Gate Hanzou, Menacing Phantom Falconer, Lightfang Ninja Hydro Hurricane Heavy, Dragon God Lucky Darts Transmogrify Sir Virginia, Mystic Light Insect Dandy Eggplant Hyperspatial Dravita Hole Mil Armor, Mecha King Vizier Prince Avaraldo, Cavalier of Thunder Shrine of Rebirth Orochi, of the Hidden Blade Colorful Dance Bolbalzak Ex Geo Baribari Miranda Surprise Illusion Seventh Tower Aqua Melge Come On Pippi Hogan Blaster Savage Earth Gachinko Roulette Moors, the Dirty Digger Puppet Onishura, Golden Twins Parlock's Miracle Fever Positron Sign Ghastly Drain Kubrick, Spiral Accelerator Kiryu Jilves, Gaia's Roar Mystery Hippo Onimaru "Head", Victory Rush Rolan, the Oracle
Banned: Bombazar, Dragon of Destiny Bolmeteus Sapphire Dragon Skeleton Vice Future Slash Hell Slash Slash Charger Soulswap Dark Hydra, Evil Planet Lord Judgement of the Flame’s Spear and the Water’s Blade Aqua Patrol Cursed Totem Inferno Gate Soul Advantage King Alcadeias, Holy Gaia Aquan Cyber Brain Emperor Chirico Crest of Mother Mad Romanoff, the Wicked God Hyperspatial Vice Hole Door of Miracle and Mystery
Combo Ban: [these cannot be in the same deck + hyperspatial zone]
Codename Sorge >> Jin, the Ogre Blade ~Crimson Rage~
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Post by nitrox on Apr 9, 2016 6:53:03 GMT
Updated to account for S35 format too.
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Post by nerafim on Apr 9, 2016 10:02:29 GMT
This is just me being pointlesly pedantic but the set 12 and 17 one are balance accurate, not chronologically. As in what was not ok with the game during those times or when looking back at it and all that. Not sure if who knows or not, and its irrelevant for playing but just pointing it out as trivia at least.
I think set 12 format is pretty useless and pointless however, people only play it because its TCG, so might as well just do that, if you do deck limits/banlist then 17 is just right there and its a huge improvement on it while basically being the same.
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Post by nitrox on Apr 9, 2016 10:10:25 GMT
This is just me being pointlesly pedantic but the set 12 and 17 one are balance accurate, not chronologically. As in what was not ok with the game during those times or when looking back at it and all that. Not sure if who knows or not, and its irrelevant for playing but just pointing it out as trivia at least. Yup, they're more balance-oriented. For that reason I've decided to keep Hanzou, Falconer and Hydro Hurricane in the S35 list(maybe we could even add Colorful Dance stuff later).
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Post by nerafim on Apr 9, 2016 10:44:09 GMT
This is just me being pointlesly pedantic but the set 12 and 17 one are balance accurate, not chronologically. As in what was not ok with the game during those times or when looking back at it and all that. Not sure if who knows or not, and its irrelevant for playing but just pointing it out as trivia at least. Yup, they're more balance-oriented. For that reason I've decided to keep Hanzou, Falconer and Hydro Hurricane in the S35 list(maybe we could even add Colorful Dance stuff later). Well those were supposed to already be listed, Ninjas even before this set block so yueah...But I really do think the lists are fine as they are now, I mean part of the charm of formats is to have vintage metas and challenges and I think it's balanced. Graving and such cards were actually not listed because of that. This is why game lists are confusing, you can't mess with them too much or you do it for the wrong reasons. On the one hand you should do stuff pre-emptively or its no fun, but on the other hand some of the cards there are not for what people think they are.
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Post by nitrox on Apr 12, 2016 16:51:19 GMT
Well those were supposed to already be listed, Ninjas even before this set block so yueah... That might not be the case, yamimichael did post some official sources proving that they were( here). But if you're really not mistaken then this is strange. About the other thing(atleast for S35 format), the game was tested out for quite a while with the 3 extra restrictions- and almost everyone said that it was better. As for the other two, we didn't mess around with them unofficially like that, just selected ones from a bit later. That's still not the exact original format, though we did use the S17 one for playing when it was released on octgn. The S12 is pointless now though, since the full TCG format was added.
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Post by kurotamashi on Apr 12, 2016 20:02:37 GMT
Hydro Hurricane decks even existed in the DM38 format. I can understand balancing purposes for Hanzou and Falconer you don't need a deck to be around them they can work in every single deck even if you don't have light or dark civilizations. Even with no blockers falconer can provide early defense and in late game hanzou becomes a life saver even if you get it from shield. But for HH you need to make a deck around it - I honestly dislike the fact that it's restricted to 1.
Every meta has had it's fair share of OP cards, Set 17 had unrestricted Plagues and Bajula's souls. And i thought this was already sorted out since Naveed agreed that HH will be unrestricted once format seperation happens
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Post by nerafim on Apr 13, 2016 11:32:51 GMT
Well those were supposed to already be listed, Ninjas even before this set block so yueah... That might not be the case, yamimichael did post some official sources proving that they were( here). But if you're really not mistaken then this is strange. About the other thing(atleast for S35 format), the game was tested out for quite a while with the 3 extra restrictions- and almost everyone said that it was better. Mmmm. Strange. I did see his post but didn't check through, but since I saw your reply I was wondering, and I guess I could have missed some stuff. I work from memory, but I admit that I didn't check very hard, and I was going to double check it on the Japanese side but I was busy so yueah...If it's connected to refrences and posts of the time, and especially if we have decklists then that's the most solid thing.
In my mind I know roughly what happened each set block, and cards and the list for me are connected with the reasons and meta (the actual cards and strats) that got them get listed. If a card gets listed for balance reasons, it is clearly because of whatever sets and plays led up to that, it is done after the fact, so being a bit pre-emptive is not bad. I think I was half conscious that I am rounding out my answers but I don't mind playing either way. Honestly decks/strats that break these cards are only discovered after a while or much later than they were already possible, partly because that's how hard card games are (it just depends on the right people going to tournaments and such) and partly because it takes time for enough people to even get cards in new sets. So it's not necesarilly the new sets that caused the card to be listed, you just have to look at each listed card individually.
I did f*** up on HH though, and I am not sure why, but I think that is the one I said I wasn't entirely sure about. My memory is also related to certain games, and I think I used those as reference but since it was so long ago, they got jumbled up I guess. If only I would have bothered to think a bit more on it and notice that Psychics and other dual Civs released here clearly had a major influence it would have worked, so basically I was lazy. I vaguely remember something. I know it was a control meta and I played BUYs mainly in DM-35, that is why I derped up.
But about Ninjas I just said "before this block" even before as a sort of slip because I know there were balance related problems with them when they were fresh out, namely Hidora, but I do remember some CL deck around set 33 that had 4x Hanzou and such, but for the life of me I am sure they were restricted midd block, and at least Falconer came sooner either way at least. I vaguely remember Hanzou and Chain perhaps, but at the same time I strongly remember when Orochi was listed that I was like "agh, so there goes the last strong removal Ninja too" when it happened.
During this period (DM-27 to 39), DM had the most number of tiny lists and changes each block, so there were several in between, that's why they get overlaped a lot, but I still feel that Hanzou and Falconer were at least restricted by the end of DM-35, so I will check some more when I can.
I don't care either way as far as playing is concerned, and I WOULD actually love to play with them more even, but I am at least glad people found the game more enjoyable like that.
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Post by nitrox on Apr 13, 2016 12:05:12 GMT
Hydro Hurricane decks even existed in the DM38 format. I can understand balancing purposes for Hanzou and Falconer you don't need a deck to be around them they can work in every single deck even if you don't have light or dark civilizations. Even with no blockers falconer can provide early defense and in late game hanzou becomes a life saver even if you get it from shield. But for HH you need to make a deck around it - I honestly dislike the fact that it's restricted to 1. Every meta has had it's fair share of OP cards, Set 17 had unrestricted Plagues and Bajula's souls. And i thought this was already sorted out since Naveed agreed that HH will be unrestricted once format seperation happens The same thing is true with many other restricted/banned cards- They need to be in the right decks to break the game- Take Aquan, Streaming Shaper or Dark Hydra for instance. However it's true that Hydro Hurricane is below Falconer and Hanzou in terms of overall usefulness like you said, so that might justify removing the restriction for it in S35 format. In any case, we'll see what's to be done AFTER the April Tournament is over, since the banlist it refers to is this one, and I don't want to change it right now because of the ongoing registrations and deck submissions. Tbh I had more cards to restrict in mind(Colorful Dance is on the top of that list), but we'll discuss first. About the 3 too.
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Post by nitrox on Jun 15, 2018 7:34:12 GMT
I'm adding Cursed Totem to S17 banlist - totally banned. For balance reasons, even though it deviates from the original JP list.
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Post by the_stellar on Jul 30, 2018 9:32:01 GMT
Please update this for e1, since e2 is the current OCG
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Post by nitrox on Jul 30, 2018 17:06:28 GMT
Please update this for e1, since e2 is the current OCG I'm not sure at this point whether to add support for E1 officially in OCTGN as a legacy format.
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Post by the_stellar on Jul 31, 2018 8:47:12 GMT
it's just that players might want to build e1 decks and are not sure what's the banlist. no need to create a new format, just post here the list. same story about awakening saga (dm 39, pre e1), please (it's quite a popular format among romanians)
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