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Post by the_stellar on Jul 31, 2015 6:21:17 GMT
First of all i want to make a thing clear: i know the official rulings, but i have my arguments and they're decent ones so i'll try to explain my point of view.
The discussion will be about this case: i've in my mana zone an evo creature(let's say, armored blaster valdios) and i use a mana evolution creature: max, crimson blade lord and choose valdios as a bait for max. Next i summon royal durian or senju splash and i remove max(attention: card removal). According to official rules, if i don't have any human in battle zone, my valdios dies. Now my question is: is this LOGICAL? The bait is required for evos when evos are PUT into the battle zone and NOT WHILE they are in the battle zone(1 ex.: meteorburn ability, which destroys the baits, but the evo is still in play even after there is no bait under it). Valdios was KEPT in the battle zone after the card removal of max,crimson blade lord so i see absolutely no reason why the "put" requirement should be still fulfilled.
Now what i want from you, guys, is not to tell me what's the official rule and just end this, i want you to JUDGE if this rule is correct and give me arguments.
Thank you
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Post by nitrox on Jul 31, 2015 10:34:08 GMT
I would agree with you, but if the rules are official we'd have to follow those. Source for the official ruling?
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Post by the_stellar on Jul 31, 2015 14:17:20 GMT
here's for the royal durian:http://duelmasters.wikia.com/wiki/Royal_Durian/Rulings
senju splash does not have any rulings section on wiki, but judging after royal durian exemple, i reached to the conclusion is the same case.
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Post by nitrox on Jul 31, 2015 16:26:56 GMT
Ok I think these rulings ensure that Durian does not become broken. Otherwise you can get all kinds of things like Ultimate Evo MAX creatures, the Final Flare Ken, etc. out with little effort.
Following the wikia should be the norm because most rulings there are taken straight from the official Japanese OCG takara tomy site.
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Post by zerovash on Jul 31, 2015 19:38:41 GMT
You're missing the part where the bait returns being a creature. An evolution can't go back to being a creature without having bait. Perfectly logical for me.
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Post by Light on Jul 31, 2015 20:43:32 GMT
Okay so the requirement for evos being 'put' into the battle-zone is to have a bait under it. Royal Durian's effect removes the top card of the stack, and the bottom cards are placed into the battlezone. In case of Vortex and Galaxy Vortex, the baits are split and individually placed. However, if the bait if an evo, then it cant be 'put' into the battlezone as it lacks a bait under it, and is thus destroyed.
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Post by nitrox on Aug 1, 2015 10:29:43 GMT
Okay so the requirement for evos being 'put' into the battle-zone is to have a bait under it. Royal Durian's effect removes the top card of the stack, and the bottom cards are placed into the battlezone. In case of Vortex and Galaxy Vortex, the baits are split and individually placed. However, if the bait if an evo, then it cant be 'put' into the battlezone as it lacks a bait under it, and is thus destroyed. However, the rulings also say that the "put" into the battlezone effects of the baits do not activate. |
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Post by the_stellar on Aug 1, 2015 10:55:06 GMT
then allow me to add something else: if the "put" requirement of the evo is needed, then let's say i evolve a mana card galek into max crimson lord and then use royal durian. do i activate the "put" effect of galek?? because you are asking me to use the "put" effect of an evo card..
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Post by Light on Aug 1, 2015 12:27:11 GMT
then allow me to add something else: if the "put" requirement of the evo is needed, then let's say i evolve a mana card galek into max crimson lord and then use royal durian. do i activate the "put" effect of galek?? because you are asking me to use the "put" effect of an evo card.. nitrox answered that. on-play effects do not activate |
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Post by the_stellar on Aug 1, 2015 13:50:21 GMT
then allow me to add something else: if the "put" requirement of the evo is needed, then let's say i evolve a mana card galek into max crimson lord and then use royal durian. do i activate the "put" effect of galek?? because you are asking me to use the "put" effect of an evo card.. nitrox answered that. on-play effects do not activate i was just taking into consideration this case: ok you are right and the "put" effect evos activates and must be fulfilled. then how don't the other "put" effects do not activate?? |
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Post by Light on Aug 3, 2015 8:00:23 GMT
Well, one is a requirement for placing evolution creatures in the battlezone, unique to evolution creatures only. The other is the on-play effect of creatures, evo or non-evo. You can't say both are the same.
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Post by the_stellar on Aug 3, 2015 10:16:15 GMT
of course they are not the same, but i assume they work the same. the requirement is not a permanent one(i've just given you the exemple of meteorburn evos), it's like you said, on-play requirement, so why the requirement is triggered but the abilities are not?
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Post by Light on Aug 4, 2015 10:37:42 GMT
We can't be sure, but it's probably to ensure Royal Durian does not become crazy OP.
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Post by the_stellar on Aug 4, 2015 18:40:15 GMT
i agree 110% with this, but instead of making illogical rules, why couldn't they simply restrict or ban these cards? or perhaps they couldn't find free places for them, aqua hulcus took all of them  |
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